The 88 Films Thread

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by JAMIOUSE

So what is the general consensus on the screen grabs for Zombi Holocaust and Anthro? Anthro looks slightly better in the SD picture to me, Holocaust I'm torn. Both look rather magentary to me which could of course be a result of the conditions the picture was taken in.

Waiting to see how it actually plays and see it in motion.

[JAMIOUSE]

Well the original comparison shots for Zombi Holocaust that 88 put on Facebook looked great fingers crossed the recent screenshots are just screenshots and not indicative of the final product.

[Nosferatu@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by J Harker

I must admit i don't find screengrabs very indicative of the end product myself.

I'm the same as, although a film is a series of still images, it's a 'motion picture' and things which can look really bad in a screenshot, such as natural grain, make the moving image much more pleasing to the eye.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I watch the films at home.

[Antropophagus]

Hi Stephen, with all due respect I'll have to disagree with you. If they confirm Anthropophagus will look like the screenshot and go ahead and release it of course I'll canvel my order. Why should I spend my hard earned to get an inferior product? Beacause hey 88 Films are cool guys, they are releasing forgotten Italian genre movies on blu-ray? Not a chance. They are a company trying to sell their product to earn money and we are customers paying to get quality products.

"Yeah I suppose they could scrap the release and try another campaign to restore it, but honestly, I don't think a film like Antropophagous warrants it".

Zombi Holocaust is no better than Anthropophagus and it gets a special treatment. We all know Zombi Holocaust has been mastered properly and the price is lower than Anthropophagus. While we don't have any info on Anthropophagus and they refuse to give any more info, only the screenshot and sell it at a premium price. Please tell me why?

"Me? I'm getting this and watching it for what it is. A crappy Italian movie with crappy special effects."

Let me ask you this, do you have the shitty release of Raro Video's Nightmare City? If not are you looking forward to getting the upcoming Arrow blu-ray? Again I am repeating myself, judging from that screenshot Anthropophagus looks no better than the abysmal Raro Video Nightmare City. How come the exceptional release of Blood and Black Lace is 14.99 and Anthropophagus is 19.99? Is this a some kind of money grabbing operation? And what bothers me the most is 88 Films' silence. It all reminds me how Raro Video used to work and still do.

[Antropophagus]

Originally Posted by Nosferatu@Cult Labs

I'm the same as, although a film is a series of still images, it's a 'motion picture' and things which can look really bad in a screenshot, such as natural grain, make the moving image much more pleasing to the eye.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I watch the films at home.

But there's no grain at all on that screenshot. Only digital smeary noise. It won't look any better in motion either. That's the reason they went ahead and restored Zombi Holocaust. The Media Blasters ZH looks the same as that screenshot, no grain, DNR, digital noise.

[Paul@TheOverlook]

Originally Posted by Stephen@Cult Labs

I'm actually beginning to think blu-ray was one of the worst ideas ever. People are like spoiled brats now. Expecting perfection and throwing their dummies out of their prams when they don't get it.

You said here what I've been thinking for a long time and I think this pedantry is indicative of the type of people who make these comments - those who do not have a relative point of view because they've only watched films on TV, DVD or Blu-ray and never via the 'nth generation bootlegs which provided the only means for many of us to see banned, heavily cut or impossible-to-find films. The first copy of A CLOCKWORK ORANGE I had way back in 1991 was so far down the line in terms of copies that it was bereft of any colour. I still LOVED the film and watched that shitty tape 10-15 times.

I also think the nitpicking is a sign of those doing it having not really seen much - they're collectors and obsess over collecting and the minutia related to that rather than simply watching and enjoying films. I was having a rant the other day about the abundance of "experts" that have sprung up since the advent of the internet now that so much information is just a few clicks away and I think the A/V Nazis are definitely a byproduct of that - it's easier to over analyse a transfer and learn about/look out for imperfections than it is to accrue any knowledge of films, filmmakers and versions, or the history of cinema - thus the "picky AV snob" has become one of the easiest ways to look like an expert.

There are transfers that are shockingly bad and they inexcusable but I happen to think that they're few and far between - most Blu-ray transfers are vastly superior to their DVD counterparts and a step in the right direction should be applauded, not shot down in flames by a group of mummies' boys who really do not have any sense of perspective.

[Susan Foreman]

There was a time when watching films was the most important thing in my life, but now I have grown up, and have realised that they are very much a small detail when compared to things like my failed business venture, my upcoming unemployment (and very likely being unemployable), personal problems (no - not what I smell like, more things going on which are out of my control) etc

Watching a film is good, but it is not the be-all-and-end-all

[Paul@TheOverlook]

I'm sorry to hear of your run of bad luck, Suzy.

It's all about perspective, as I said, Suzy - I'm sure you're in the same age bracket as Stephen and I too, so know all too well how things have progressed in leaps and bounds.

There's nothing wrong with being passionate about films - I still am, even though they're no longer a priority of mine, either. It's the constant barrage of negative sentiment I see that I think is totally uncalled for. Yes, there are transfers that could be better but to have the consistency of companies like Criterion and Sony Pictures you have to spend vast sums of money going back to the negatives and doing a LOT of work. What we do get, for the most part, is definitely worthy of the upgrade IMO.

[Tombsy666]

I have ordered Anthropophageous and various other titles on blu ray not to pull them apart quality wise, just to catch up on some horror entertainment, 90 or so mins of escapism, I know that not every title will be up to the standard that some people will expect, as long as the print is good enough to enjoy the film and in it's intended uncut release then i'm happy with that, I buy from Arrow, 88, Blue underground etc and so far have been more than happy with their products, I too though have more issues to worry about than how a transfer looks, i'm just grateful that we are at last getting a lot of these titles released here and uncut too

[bizarre_eye@Cult Labs]

There are two sides to this argument and both have some valid points.

I'm also becoming increasingly more exasperated by the A/V brigade who almost seem to relish ripping into a release (even before it's on the shelf and they've seen it with their own eyes in motion on their own set-ups). Everyone seems to be an armchair critic nowadays - the advent of Blu-ray obviously adding to this - and a lot of complaints I've seen (not here but in general) are based on assumption rather than an understanding of all the processes involved, budgets, limitations both technically and financially etc.

88 after all are a small outfit on a limited budget. They quite probably can't afford to develop new scans and masters from the OCN like Arrow and certain other companies do, and their name will not carry as much weight when bargaining with companies and directors for releases. Therefore they work with what they can get. However, at the same time - as others have already mentioned - they have a passion and a sense of riskiness in terms of the titles they want to release, choosing a lot of world HD firsts and genre fare that the fans have been clamouring for and that bigger, more cash-rich companies such as Arrow may not want to take a chance on as their financial dept has warned them that the numbers might not stack-up. Whilst this is a risky strategy from such a new, young outfit I think they've generally got off to a decent start and can only learn through experience. Whilst Anthro would undoubtedly look better if Arrow would have picked it up, the bottom line is they haven't and they didn't want to - if they did I'm sure they would have been able to outbid 88 - and the same goes for a lot of 88's upcoming slate too. Potentially, we therefore currently have the option of a decent upgrade of Anthro over previous DVD release vs. No release at all - how much of an upgrade that will be remains to be seen and of course fans will need to decide themselves whether it justifies a purchase.

Also, the value of £19.99 that is being thrown around in respect to the release is only true for 88's own site and is for the exclusive slipcover and art cards pre-order version. Amazon etc. will be stocking this title too and it will no doubt be in the £12-£14 price range on release day and may even fall to £8.99, which so many of 88's releases tend to do. I for one think £8.99 for a packed HD mastered (albeit not as good as it could have been) release of Anthro is a steal. Especially as my DVD copy cost more than that several years ago. However, price again is something that needs to be justified by the individual - £20 is a lot to some and a minimal expense to others.

However, I think we've become spoiled as fans. All these niche companies who put so much effort into creating premium releases have meant we've started taking this kind of work for granted. I remember when Arrow released their Dawn of the Dead Blu back in 2008. There was literally nothing like it in terms of fan-geared packed media on the market at the time and it was a true revelation. Now everyone is trying to get a slice of an increasingly shrinking pie and by which we've started to see more aggressive and game-upping antics coming into play - which is good news for us fans in many respects. However, this also breeds the apathy from fans that every release should be perfect and match 'distributor x's standards of quality' when in reality this isn't the case (especially with these tiny indie labels).

On the flip-side we can't just dismiss people's opinions and points in regards to a release and seemingly 'cover-up' any flaws people may infer. This is an open forum after all and praise can also be balanced with criticism - the main driver being that any criticism is always constructive and not just insult based. There are those who are a little label loyal and maybe get a bit defensive when transfers or releases are called in question and are branded 'fan boys' because of it - this can be seen across all internet boards, and equally there are people who will nit-pick and/or have 'grudges' against certain labels... the latter being the minority few, but an unfortunate by-product of open internet forums nonetheless. Neither group's opinions makes for the most reasonable or intelligent reading and both are often as stubborn as each other. Me? I have no loyalties and I just absorb all the information that is provided and judge for myself - the proof being 'in the pudding' so to speak, and let my wallet do the talking respectively.