The Star Wars Thread

[Cinematic Shocks]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

How was The Phantom Menace not coherent? It plays out perfectly well. It may not be to the Star Wars police liking - too much about trade relationships - but it sets up Palpatine's rise to power very nicely. Oh and Darth Maul is a fine villain.

Sure Jake LLoyd was shit as was Jar Jar but the duel of the fates was the best sequence bar none since the end of Jedi.

The plotting and world building in the prequels is actually great, with an ambitious scope, but the problems with the trilogy comes from how mostly everything else is executed. The Clone Wars CGI animated series redeems this era of the franchise, and makes Revenge of the Sith a more rewarding viewing experience, although it was already easily the best of the three films.

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

Why is Luke wallowing? He was okay at the end of ROTJ.

How was The Phantom Menace not coherent? It plays out perfectly well. It may not be to the Star Wars police liking - too much about trade relationships - but it sets up Palpatine's rise to power very nicely. Oh and Darth Maul is a fine villain.

Sure Jake LLoyd was shit as was Jar Jar but the duel of the fates was the best sequence bar none since the end of Jedi.

Luke was ok at the end of ROTJ? How do you know? he was in it about 2 minutes and had no dialogue. That sounds like an assumption.

Phantom menace was dragged down by all that trade federation nonsense. Not to mention the awful ear stinging dialogue.

[keirarts]

[Cinematic Shocks]

It doesn't matter how Luke was at the end of ROTJ, as it has no relation to who he becomes in TLJ. What matters, is what happened to him between the end of the original trilogy, and this new one. Like Luke, none of us can expect to be the same people in 30 years. This is a helluva a lot more life experience, and Luke went through great tragedy and failure during this time. By the end of The Last Jedi, he realizes to accept his mistake and learn from it.

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by Cinematic Shocks

It doesn't matter how Luke was at the end of ROTJ, as it has no relation to who he becomes in TLJ. What matters, is what happened to him between the end of the original trilogy, and this new one. Like Luke, none of us can expect to be the same people in 30 years. That is a helluva a lot more life experience, and Luke went through great tragedy and failure during that time. By the end of The Last Jedi, he realizes to accept his mistake and learn from it.

See that was my take. I've seen numerous hero's journey type pictures where the hero reaches old age and things haven't quite turned out as they expected. Its more interesting thematically than they guy whose still doing the same things he did in his twenties.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Cinematic Shocks

It doesn't matter how Luke was at the end of ROTJ, as it has no relation to who he becomes in TLJ. What matters, is what happened to him between the end of the original trilogy, and this new one. Like Luke, none of us can expect to be the same people in 30 years.

Mmmmm. Then Disney bought Lucasfilm, and decided to turn Luke Skywalker into a pathetic hermit that likes drinking milk from a tit of a Sea Cow. Some Jedi Master. It's quite a pathetic outcome to a character that's been totally character assassinated by Disney/Lucasfilm.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

See that was my take. I've seen numerous hero's journey type pictures where the hero reaches old age and things haven't quite turned out as they expected. Its more interesting thematically than they guy whose still doing the same things he did in his twenties.

As a central character to the Star Wars lore of the past, Luke Skywalker had much to give as a character and a teacher to Rey. Her journey from a Rey nobody to a woman with force powers would've of been helped dramatically "if" Luke had been shown as the true character he'd been in the past. With age comes wisdom and great responsibility. But as always the opportunity to produce a REAL central story arc between both Rey and Luke was completely lost. Johnson had no intentions of actually supporting Luke's incredible past as a Jedi. You might as well of just ditched the Luke character entirely from these abysmal Disney films. There's no solid continuity at all. It's lacklustre and in many ways directionless. As I said before, and will say again keirarts, you need to understand that all stories MUST have a direction and solid continuity to be able to tell the story properly. Without such elements, Star Wars ends up looking like The Last Jedi. A complete and utter mess.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

Luke was ok at the end of ROTJ? How do you know?

We didn't know. One day a big corporation came along called the house of mouse, and changed poor old Luke into a nobody who's past means nothing. What was the point of all six Lucas films?

I think Disney just liked stamping it's mark on Lucas' creation with venom.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

Phantom menace was dragged down by all that trade federation nonsense. Not to mention the awful ear stinging dialogue.

Well George Lucas had to start somewhere. Though I wasn't too keen myself on the trade federation backstory, but somehow it dovetailed into the story of The Phantom Menace fairly well. There needed to be a starting point also for the political intrigue of Palpatine, and also how Palpatine and the two Jedi's assigned to investigate why the trade federation were blocking the trade roots to the planet of Naboo.

Lucas isn't fantastic with dialouge at times, but he's proved himself many times with how he's been able to position himself with telling the story through "continuity" and a fluid story arc that gives substance to the Star Wars universe that he created and developed. Even in Attack of the Clones we have ingtrigues as an undercurrent to the story. Lucas does slightly fail in places, but does a two story narrative rather well. Revenge of the Sith is the closure, and the story delivers on all fronts. Dark and cutting to the bone. The narrative is exceptionally well rounded, with Lucas' unique vision shaping the fall of Anakin with an old style menace that harks back to the European fairytales of old. Johnson with the Disney take on Star Wars couldn't even deliver a thoughtful or dark story that reflected Luke's past. Sloppy and just one dimensional in execution, Johnson took the easy route. And it shows. A five year old child could come up with a better story outline to The Last Jedi.

Lucas once again gives decent developement to all the characters, and once again that word "continuity" rears it's head, and shows what a complete mess Johnson did with The Last Jedi. Jar Jar Abrams will have such a mess to sort out, that I think he might as well just have an endless space battle to compenstate for what little story of understanding Episode 9 will have.

The film will be another mess, and another kick in the teeth to Lucas.

At least all six Star Wars films Lucas made have an expanding narrative of substance and logic behind them. With solid "continuity" and well developed and believable characters.

I raise my glass of hot chocolate to George Lucas, the master storyteller of the Star Wars universe.

Cheers George.

[keirarts]

Let's all agree hivemind is wrong and move on.