The Beyond –The Technical Debate

[Zombie Dude]

While it's great that the opening sequence has been fixed and that people still want to support this release even though there are sync issues present, I think it is a little slack that Arrow wasn't on top of this. Whether it's a small defect or not it is still there.

[Prince_Vajda]

Originally Posted by bgart13

True, but they doesn't make it ok. In fact, I think indie companies need to try harder to show they are as good if not better than the majors. Yeah, every "major" indie cult label has muck-ups, the occasional minor one is usually ok (but is a case-by-case situation), but Arrow has had some that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Yeah, none of the mistakes should have happened. I do not only see that from the customer's point of view but also through Arrow's eyes. All the money needed for fixing the "The Beyond"-release and sending out replacement discs to places all over the world could have been used for a new release of another movie; and that would be in our own interest, too. Nevertheless I am realistic enough to accept the fact that mistakes happen - it's only human as I said before; and as long as it is minor things that need to be fixed I really won't blame Arrow for that. I own 15 of their releases (two more on the way, four new releases to be bought in the next two months) and none of them had any fault that I would care about - that includes "The Beyond" with them doing a great customer-friendly job replacing the discs.

But I get your point: it would be nicer if Arrow's releases would not include that little faults. It certainly would also help Arrow to sell more of their discs - as some part our somewhat pedantic generation is more likely to look for mistakes in new releases than to be happy for the movie being released in a classy edition.

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude

While it's great that the opening sequence has been fixed and that people still want to support this release even though there are sync issues present, I think it is a little slack that Arrow wasn't on top of this. Whether it's a small defect or not it is still there.

Nothing I could add to that - it really would be the icing on the cake if those little mistakes would not happen at all.

Nevertheless I am really happy with the job Arrow is doing releasing all those fine movies - and as there is no other company giving us such worthy editions I will certainly turn a blind eye to their little issues.

Greetings!

[Almar@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by bgart13

The issue is that more than just THE BEYOND has had QC issues, this isn't the first time there's been errors in their releases. I like Arrow, I've got a number of blu-rays on my shelf from Arrow. But there is no reason for it to even happen this regularly (small company or not). It is not "nit picking," btw -- dubbing issues, poorly reviewed transfers/encoding, these are all things that should be caught before discs are sent out for review. If they need help or someone who knows better, then Arrow needs to find someone who is more capable than whomever has been doing it. This is constructive criticism, too.

I don't think it's fair that I let a comment slide that problems are regular - that I don't feel is fair and doesn't reflect the long hours and stress that I know are going into these releases and I also would like to see what people think about the issue that the rights holders, the preservers and owners of these films should take a little more care with the materials they deem acceptable to supply in general - it is often the case that plenty needs to be fixed and in such a process you can stare and review as much as you like and still something can be missed.

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Prince_Vajda

Once again: "Nag, nag, nag". I wonder whether I am the only one that really is somewhat fed up with all those whiners out there constantly complaining about an error that 99 percent would neither spot nor care about.

It seems to me that some people just watch movies in order to find mistakes in the release in order to proudly tell everyone how pissed off they are by that ever so big fault and that they definitely won't buy the release (some kind of masochism perhaps?).

There are certainly things that are really worth complaining about - wrong ascpect ratio, hardly understandable audio tracks, cut versions or whatever. Then there are things that you CAN complain about in a civilised manner, if it is really important to you - I'd put the opening sequence of "The Beyond" into that category, as the b/w-opening doesn't really hurt or destroy anything yet can be considered as unusual or simply wrong.

But nagging because of itty bitty things like the audio-sync-issue (it's only for some seconds, so calm down) goes a little bit too far in my eyes.

And to add my very personal two cents: if that hallucinated big problem keeps anyone from buying such a fantastic release - well, you cannot please everybody; maybe some people just don't deserve getting such great editions.

I really enjoy laughing my head off thinking of how pedantic people can be - or should I start crying because of such ingratitude?

And as long as the real errors are made up for the way Arrow do nobody has a genuine right to complain.

When you wrote all this did you deliberately set out to antagonise everyone who has an issue with the transfer of this Blu-ray?

All I can see is a post that ridicules and belittles anyone who has a problem with paying their hard earned cash for a product that isn't 100% as it should be.

People have a right to complain about anything they see fit as long as it isn't hostile and is put across in a constructive manner.

If you bought a brand new car that had a scratch down the side would you let if go, after all it still drives perfectly well.

Or if you bought a Big Mac meal but found the fries were cold? No need to complain as it's still edible and you can still sate your hunger. No big deal is it?

If a product is defective in the eyes of a consumer then that person has a right to voice their opinion and doesn't have to listen to you calling them pedants or say they must be hallucinating and the problems they have are a figment of their imagination.

[Almar@Cult Labs]

Let's keep it cool people - both sides need to get opinions across but yes let's not prod each other about the right to say how we feel - that should be a given.

I gotta say though Jonny - cars and McDonalds? Bit of a different league to Arrow surely?

All I'm going to say is when one chap - Fran - at Arrow is doing everything he can on limited resources and materials supplied from rights owners that seem to be allowed not to care that some slack is needed. The critical point is the transparency - you read up the comments here and you're then able to make a purchase choice.

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs

I gotta say though Jonny - cars and McDonalds? Bit of a different league to Arrow surely?

Haha! Well, I'm still in my dressing gown and haven't had a brew yet so maybe I could have put it a little bit better once I wake up properly. First day off in a week so my heads a bit fuggy.

[Rotten]

I agree here, as we know, Vipco claimed to re-master their discs, but didnt, and their print of GRAVE OF THE VAMPIRE is so awful it actually MADE me watch the movie until the bitter end, to see how much worse the print could get!!

Arrow do a fantastic job, and we should be greatful such care and attention goes into their product, Unlike Vipco........there may be problems within some releases, but how many of us would rather have the movies in a decent issue or a shambolic one?

[Prince_Vajda]

Originally Posted by Jonny

When you wrote all this did you deliberately set out to antagonise everyone who has an issue with the transfer of this Blu-ray?

All I can see is a post that ridicules and belittles anyone who has a problem with paying their hard earned cash for a product that isn't 100% as it should be.

People have a right to complain about anything they see fit as long as it isn't hostile and is put across in a constructive manner.

If you bought a brand new car that had a scratch down the side would you let if go, after all it still drives perfectly well.

Or if you bought a Big Mac meal but found the fries were cold? No need to complain as it's still edible and you can still sate your hunger. No big deal is it?

If a product is defective in the eyes of a consumer then that person has a right to voice their opinion and doesn't have to listen to you calling them pedants or say they must be hallucinating and the problems they have are a figment of their imagination.

I think you did not read my comment carefully enough. I did not forbid anyone to utter his or her honest criticism - far from it; basically that is one of the purposes of this great forum. I also think that it is in everyone's interest that problems are adressed in a decent way.

But grumble about some seconds of wrong audio sync and therefore concluding that the release is not worth buying - sorry, but I think that is childish behaviour.

And I also think that it is about time to stop blaming Arrow for the wrong-coloured opening - everyone will get a free replacement without any complicated return of the faulty discs; that makes up for the mistake, at least in my eyes.

Back to your criticism. Again I would like to stress that it is alright to complain about things that are worth complaining about. But in this case all that has to be said is already said; so criticising here would be like carrying coals to Newcastle.

Finally, I'd like to comment on your comparisons with cars and food. Frankly, I would call them both a little inadequate.
It's more like getting a great sports car with a lot of horse power, a great paint job and fantastic roadholding - and someone starts complaining about the gear shift being a little imprecise.
And talking about a Big Mac: it's more like they forgot one's pickled cucumber on it; you complain and they put them on your burger.

So: it is certainly alright to complain but the complaints should be reasonable and valid as the conclusions should be in proportion; you already mentioned that in your response so I think you got the general idea.

No offence and greetings!

[Almar@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Haha! Well, I'm still in my dressing gown and haven't had a brew yet so maybe I could have put it a little bit better once I wake up properly. First day off in a week so my heads a bit fuggy.

Well you picked a good day off - the sun is coming out as I type!

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Almar@Cult Labs

Well you picked a good day off - the sun is coming out as I type!

Yep, same up here too. Off swimming with the kids this afternoon I think.

Originally Posted by Prince_Vajda

But grumble about some seconds of wrong audio sync and therefore concluding that the release is not worth buying - sorry, that is childish behaviour.

You can't help yourself can you? Calling people childish now.

Oh well.