The Arrow Thread

[J Harker]

Originally Posted by Michael Brooke

Although consumers might bridle at the suggestion, the sad fact is that quite a few BD releases are very significantly underpriced relative to what they cost to produce

What are production costs like Michael, to be fair i have no idea about such things. For instance the Six gothic tales set seems very pricey to me at £70, for six films on six discs. Two of which are re-releases and all six of which are using masters already created by mgm? (I believe). Particularly when put alongside something like the recent Herzog set from bfi which has something like 18 films across 8 discs and was available for under fifty quid.
How about Arrow sales? If they are already selling bd's underpriced in comparison to production costs how can they then get away with selling them at almost half price? Do they make any profit on sales?

[Michael Brooke]

Originally Posted by J Harker

What are production costs like Michael, to be fair i have no idea about such things. For instance the Six gothic tales set seems very pricey to me at £70, for six films on six discs. Two of which are re-releases and all six of which are using masters already created by mgm? (I believe). Particularly when put alongside something like the recent Herzog set from bfi which has something like 18 films across 8 discs and was available for under fifty quid.

With respect, this is a decidedly flawed argument.

First of all, regardless of how cheaply you may have been able to purchase it from individual retailers, the RRP of the Blu-ray version of the Herzog box is ten pounds more than that of Six Gothic Tales (£79.99 versus £69.99).

Secondly, your tally of "18 films" includes five TV documentaries running less than 50 minutes, and three shorts running less than twenty. In other words, if you're using that yardstick, you're honour-bound to add the two Rob Green shorts (The Black Cat and The Trick) to the Corman/Poe tally, as well as Harun Farocki's The Two Faces of Peter Lorre - which, like the Herzog films, is a West German TV documentary made by one of the outstanding German filmmakers working in the field at the time.

Also, the Herzog box has been widely criticised both for its flimsy packaging and the comparatively skimpy booklet (just one essay and individual film credits, in black and white throughout besides the front cover). Six Gothic Tales is getting more substantial packaging and a 200-page book in full colour throughout. In other words, while I'm not privy to the production budget of the Herzog set, I suspect Arrow spent a fair bit more on physical production costs.

So does that answer your question?

And as a footnote, most of the Herzog features (bar Nosferatu and Aguirre and Fata Morgana) are exclusive to the box - whereas all the previously unreleased Corman/Poe features are coming out individually at some point next year (the contents of the booklets has yet to be confirmed, but the discs themselves will be absolutely identical). So if you don't want to pay for the big box but still want the films, you have an alternative option.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

I may well be one on my own here, but personally i don't really care about the extras and booklets.

Yes, they are nice definitely, but it's the film itself for me and that's all that matters. I would be more than happy to pay less for discs that consist of just the film.

Just my own opinion. I'm not suggesting this is the right or wrong way to go in the future.

[Michael Brooke]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

I may well be one on my own here, but personally i don't really care about the extras and booklets.

Yes, they are nice definitely, but it's the film itself for me and that's all that matters. I would be more than happy to pay less for discs that consist of just the film.

Just my own opinion. I'm not suggesting this is the right or wrong way to go in the future.

Quite a few labels (including Arrow) do indeed do cut-down "just the film" editions aimed at supermarket impulse purchasers - although only of a handful of titles appropriate to that environment: you're unlikely ever to find Nekromantik at your local Asda!

[J Harker]

Originally Posted by Michael Brooke

With respect, this is a decidedly flawed argument.

First of all, regardless of how cheaply you may have been able to purchase it from individual retailers, the RRP of the Blu-ray version of the Herzog box is ten pounds more than that of Six Gothic Tales (£79.99 versus £69.99).

Secondly, your tally of "18 films" includes five TV documentaries running less than 50 minutes, and three shorts running less than twenty. In other words, if you're using that yardstick, you're honour-bound to add the two Rob Green shorts (The Black Cat and The Trick) to the Corman/Poe tally, as well as Harun Farocki's The Two Faces of Peter Lorre - which, like the Herzog films, is a West German TV documentary made by one of the outstanding German filmmakers working in the field at the time.

Also, the Herzog box has been widely criticised both for its flimsy packaging and the comparatively skimpy booklet (just one essay and individual film credits, in black and white throughout besides the front cover). Six Gothic Tales is getting more substantial packaging and a 200-page book in full colour throughout. In other words, while I'm not privy to the production budget of the Herzog set, I suspect Arrow spent a fair bit more on physical production costs.

So does that answer your question?

And as a footnote, most of the Herzog features (bar Nosferatu and Aguirre and Fata Morgana) are exclusive to the box - whereas all the previously unreleased Corman/Poe features are coming out individually at some point next year (the contents of the booklets has yet to be confirmed, but the discs themselves will be absolutely identical). So if you don't want to pay for the big box but still want the films, you have an alternative option.

With equally due respect Michael it was a genuine question not an arguement. There's no need to defend the price simply give us an idea of what the production costs amount to. To be honest you seem to have avoided the actual questions i posed and simply criticised the Herzog set. I can do that myself but then i only paid £49.99 for it. Yes it was from a retailer but i hardly see how that's relevant. The Price/Poe set is available ten pounds cheaper from amazon than arrow direct and it's still expensive in my opinion. It's entirely likely that the cost of producing the set entirely justifies the asking price which is why I'm asking what the production costs would roughly be. For instance how much does the 200 page book cost to get made?

[Michael Brooke]

Originally Posted by J Harker

With equally due respect Michael it was a genuine question not an arguement.

"Why is the Herzog box cheaper than the Corman/Poe box?" is a question. "Why is the Herzog box cheaper when it contains [long list of stuff that's compared with the Corman/Poe specs]?" is an argument.

[J Harker]

Originally Posted by Michael Brooke

"Why is the Herzog box cheaper than the Corman/Poe box?" is a question. "Why is the Herzog box cheaper when it contains [long list of stuff that's compared with the Corman/Poe specs]?" is an argument.

I see. Well I'm sorry you see it that way, i apologise as it certainly isn't intended as an arguement.

[sjconstable]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

I may well be one on my own here, but personally i don't really care about the extras and booklets.

Yes, they are nice definitely, but it's the film itself for me and that's all that matters. I would be more than happy to pay less for discs that consist of just the film.

Just my own opinion. I'm not suggesting this is the right or wrong way to go in the future.

Digital downloads are right up your alley then.

[Michael Brooke]

Originally Posted by J Harker

I see. Well I'm sorry you see it that way, i apologise as it certainly isn't intended as an arguement.

I think you're interpreting the word "argument" as being more confrontational than it actually is!

It's merely a literal description of the way that you worded your question by including a statement that was open to challenge - which is a perfectly reasonable way of wording it. (In fact, possibly better than just asking a simple question, as it forced me to delve deeper into the answer.)

[J Harker]

Originally Posted by Michael Brooke

I think you're interpreting the word "argument" as being more confrontational than it actually is!

It's merely a literal description of the way that you worded your question by including a statement that was open to challenge - which is a perfectly reasonable way of wording it. (In fact, possibly better than just asking a simple question, as it forced me to delve deeper into the answer.)

Right then let's start at the begining. I think the Gothic Tales set is expensive. Whether it be £60 from a retailer or £70 from Arrow themselves. How much does this set roughly cost to produce i wonder? I know i bet Michael Brooke would be the guy to ask! ☺