The Doctor Who Thread

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Rob4

well quickly and personally:

1. have a full season of two part stories, that are standalone and without a season story arc. perhaps go back to when the Doctor couldn't always accurately control the Tardis and therefore ended up in unexpected places.
   
2. does the threat always have to be universe wide? lets have some localised stories. DW works best when in an enclosed environment with a limited number of characters.
   
3. let's get some horror back in. my favourite two seasons Tom Baker S2&3 were very horror tinged and drew on famous horror literature for inspiration.
   
4. go back to just one (maybe two) companion(s). having 3 makes them compete for equal screen time and stalls the stories.
   
5. reset the Doctor's character back to what it was i.e. someone curious, didn't know everything, someone who values life but definitely not a pacifist.
   
6. take out the PC lecturing. if the story has a 'message' let it live within the story instead of koshing the audience over the head with it.

i'm sure there is more but that will do for starters

Though I agree with you on some of those points, unfortunately great damage has been done to Dr Who. A re-boot of Dr Who just won't work, because that is what you would have to do. Dump Parody Who, and ignore every single story (if you can call them stories) and re-start afresh. The BBC just wouldn't do it. I would love to see Jodie Whittaker's time as Parody Who number 13 gone, totally ignored and washed away, but judging by what has recently been said by the BBC, that will never happen.

No matter what anyone says Rob4, Dr Who has been destroyed. It's legacy wrecked, and left many, many people exceptionally unhappy at the current state of Dr Who. The BBC isn't answerable to the viewers, and the BBC seem to carry on regardless no matter how bad Parody Who has become, because this is more about pushing social change messages than delivering a quality show. There's no going back from this now. Unless the BBC admit what they've done to Dr Who, it's fate has been sealed. All of this concerns me greatly. Merchandise sales are down.

The American market has all but dryed up, and the BBC just carry on as though it doesn't matter one bit. And yet, when Dr Who was just beginning to improve in the late 1980's, the BBC shunned it completely. Says a lot about what's going on in the BBC, and the thinking behind Parody Who. The BBC would've axed this show in no timetoday, had their not been deliberate social change message(s) added into the mix.

A demonstration if you will, of open propaganda to change hearts and minds, but its failed, and in the process, its actively destroyed a legendary BBC show with a great pedigree for classic TV sci-fi.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by hivemind

Though I agree with you on some of those points, unfortunately great damage has been done to Dr Who. A re-boot of Dr Who just won't work, because that is what you would have to do. Dump Parody Who, and ignore every single story (if you can call them stories) and re-start afresh. The BBC just wouldn't do it. I would love to see Jodie Whittaker's time as Parody Who number 13 gone, totally ignored and washed away, but judging by what has recently been said by the BBC, that will never happen.

No matter what anyone says Rob4, Dr Who has been destroyed. It's legacy wrecked, and left many, many people exceptionally unhappy at the current state of Dr Who. The BBC isn't answerable to the viewers, and the BBC seem to carry on regardless no matter how bad Parody Who has become, because this is more about pushing social change messages than delivering a quality show. There's no going back from this now. Unless the BBC admit what they've done to Dr Who, it's fate has been sealed. All of this concerns me greatly. Merchandise sales are down.

The American market has all but dryed up, and the BBC just carry on as though it doesn't matter one bit. And yet, when Dr Who was just beginning to improve in the late 1980's, the BBC shunned it completely. Says a lot about what's going on in the BBC, and the thinking behind Parody Who. The BBC would've axed this show in no timetoday, had their not been deliberate social change message(s) added into the mix.

A demonstration if you will, of open propaganda to change hearts and minds, but its failed, and in the process, its actively destroyed a legendary BBC show with a great pedigree for classic TV sci-fi.

I don't buy that it's legacy is wrecked.

How does something on screen in 2020 wreck the quality of a story like Genesis, Androzani or The Underwater Menace?

Answer, it doesn't.

You seem to be really wound up over recent events in Who whereas i really don't care, it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of stories from Doctor's 1-12. There will always be Doctor's / era's that an individual fan doesn't like as much as the rest and we are going through one of those times now and i am one of those disappointed by the direction taken. However the last episode was a week ago now so i simply ignore events i don't like.

As for me i'm really looking forward to seeing the animated Faceless Ones in a couple of weeks and then The Underwater Menace later in the year. Or is their legacy so tainted i shouldn't bother with them?

As for merchandise sales being down, how do you know?

The 5" figures released by B&M last year sold really well as will the newly released ones.

Character made a blunder in the late Smith era by changing the figures from 5" scale to 2.75" so they could be played with along with figures from other brands such as Star Wars. It was this range that didn't sell, all the 5" figures released since have performed well.

As for other merch i really don't know or care how well a Jodie Whitaker t-shirt sells.

[Rob4]

Originally Posted by hivemind

Though I agree with you on some of those points, unfortunately great damage has been done to Dr Who. A re-boot of Dr Who just won't work, because that is what you would have to do. Dump Parody Who, and ignore every single story (if you can call them stories) and re-start afresh. The BBC just wouldn't do it. I would love to see Jodie Whittaker's time as Parody Who number 13 gone, totally ignored and washed away, but judging by what has recently been said by the BBC, that will never happen.

Of course not. Its their character to do with what they will. That's the definition of ownership. You are offered a product and you buy or you don't buy. You are not entitled to it or entitled to have it provided in a form that you think is correct. Fans are not in charge and never have been...

[iank]

More's the pity.
Perhaps the show wouldn't be quite so utterly shit if it had people who actually cared about in charge, instead of soulless bean-counters and even more soulless agenda-pushers.

[iank]

Originally Posted by gag

Tbh updating , modernising, special effects , cgi, pointless humour and all that malarkey doesn't necessary mean better with anything, irrelevant if like or don't tennant, or Eccleston / or certain stories the nu who really doesn't have the same charm and appeal as the original, as the old saying goes if it isn't broke don't fix it, That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

That's because New Who was never really intended to be a legitimate continuation of Who to begin with. It was always intended as a complete reboot/reimagining (including the central character). The only reason it was even given the name was to sucker the existing fanbase into supporting it while it found its feet, but the long-term goal was always to get rid of them once it had enough modern morons watching it. All that's happened in the last few years is that the pretense has finally been dropped altogether.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Rob4

Of course not. Its their character to do with what they will. That's the definition of ownership. You are offered a product and you buy or you don't buy. You are not entitled to it or entitled to have it provided in a form that you think is correct. Fans are not in charge and never have been...

Funny isn't it Rob4. The BBC should be answerable to licence fee payers who pay the BBC a rather royal sum every year, including Mr. Piers Wenger's rather fine salary. But obviously it doesn't really matter these days, because pushing propaganda is more important than entertaining it's core audience with decent shows that promote a shows legacy that supposedly was the "jewel in the crown" of BBC Entertainment shows, and reduce it little more than an inferior piece of garbage that's lost viewers continually since BBC agent Chibnall took over.

I suspect that next year we'll see the same happen again, but the BBC will try to draw in more viewers with the possibility of Tennant and Barrowman, but don't expect great stories or anything remotely different, just more of the same.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by hivemind

Funny isn't it Rob4. The BBC should be answerable to licence fee payers who pay the BBC a rather royal sum every year, including Mr. Piers Wenger's rather fine salary. But obviously it doesn't really matter these days, because pushing propaganda is more important than entertaining it's core audience with decent shows that promote a shows legacy that supposedly was the "jewel in the crown" of BBC Entertainment shows, and reduce it little more than an inferior piece of garbage that's lost viewers continually since BBC agent Chibnall took over.

I suspect that next year we'll see the same happen again, but the BBC will try to draw in more viewers with the possibility of Tennant and Barrowman, but don't expect great stories or anything remotely different, just more of the same.

If they continue as they have been doing it's quite conceivable that the overnights and the AI figures could be one and the same next series.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

I don't buy that it's legacy is wrecked.

How does something on screen in 2020 wreck the quality of a story like Genesis, Androzani or The Underwater Menace?

Answer, it doesn't.

You seem to be really wound up over recent events in Who whereas i really don't care, it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of stories from Doctor's 1-12. There will always be Doctor's / era's that an individual fan doesn't like as much as the rest and we are going through one of those times now and i am one of those disappointed by the direction taken. However the last episode was a week ago now so i simply ignore events i don't like.

As for me i'm really looking forward to seeing the animated Faceless Ones in a couple of weeks and then The Underwater Menace later in the year. Or is their legacy so tainted i shouldn't bother with them?

As for merchandise sales being down, how do you know?

The 5" figures released by B&M last year sold really well as will the newly released ones.

Character made a blunder in the late Smith era by changing the figures from 5" scale to 2.75" so they could be played with along with figures from other brands such as Star Wars. It was this range that didn't sell, all the 5" figures released since have performed well.

As for other merch i really don't know or care how well a Jodie Whitaker t-shirt sells.

I'm genuinely surprised by you Demdike.

The revelation that the Doctor was female turned out to be true, didn't it. William Hartnell replaced by a black baby. I've got nothing against black people you understand, but where does that place Dr Who? Hartnell was the first, but Chibnall delivers the blow by pushing for a re-think. A re-think that was to have far reaching consequences for the shows set legacy Even you turned your nose up at the very thought of the Doctor's origin being female. You seem to blow in so many directions like a weather vane on an exceptionally windy day. The origins of the Doctor matters to Dr Who. The mystery of who Doctor was or is, is an important and mysterious element of great significance. When the mystery is unravelled, then you have nothing but an empty show. A show that you seem only to happy to support, but don't complain down the road when Dr Parody gets cancelled, and blame it on people like me or iank etc.... Don't get me wrong, I still love classic who, and I enjoy some of the not so Nu Who, but when you break the spell, and destroy the magic behind the character, then you have a show that's no longer Doctor Who. 57 years of Doctor Who destroyed by the very corporation that produced this fine show in 1963. I'm looking forward to The Faceless Ones too, but under the surface, there's a bad taste. A taste of bitter disapointment. The origins of Who have been ripped apart to service an agenda to suit the BBC, rather than promote the shows strengths and stunning legacy through time and space.

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by hivemind

I'm genuinely surprised by you Demdike.

The revelation that the Doctor was female turned out to be true, didn't it. William Hartnell replaced by a black baby. I've got nothing against black people you understand, but where does that place Dr Who? Hartnell was the first, but Chibnall delivers the blow by pushing for a re-think. A re-think that was to have far reaching consequences for the shows set legacy Even you turned your nose up at the very thought of the Doctor's origin being female. You seem to blow in so many directions like a weather vane on an exceptionally windy day. The origins of the Doctor matters to Dr Who. The mystery of who Doctor was or is, is an important and mysterious element of great significance. When the mystery is unravelled, then you have nothing but an empty show. A show that you seem only to happy to support, but don't complain down the road when Dr Parody gets cancelled, and blame it on people like me or iank etc.... Don't get me wrong, I still love classic who, and I enjoy some of the not so Nu Who, but when you break the spell, and destroy the magic behind the character, then you have a show that's no longer Doctor Who. 57 years of Doctor Who destroyed by the very corporation that produced this fine show in 1963. I'm looking forward to The Faceless Ones too, but under the surface, there's a bad taste. A taste of bitter disapointment. The origins of Who have been ripped apart to service an agenda to suit the BBC, rather than promote the shows strengths and stunning legacy through time and space.

I simply choose to ignore the Timeless Child bollocks. It's not difficult.

I haven't had the same sort of attachment to the show since the end of Capaldi's first series. I loathed much of his second series and found three quarters of his third series dull.

I genuinely don't care what they do with it in the next series, i'll watch it and either like it or i won't, that will be my prerogative. Whatever happens good or bad won't taint my love of what's gone before.

I don't particularly see Whitaker as a parody just a direction i don't particularly endorse but it is a direction that's easily ret-conned if a new show runner so decides.

[iank]

The BBC have always hated Doctor Who. They didn't want it made in the first place, they didn't want Verity Lambert doing it, they wanted to axe it in 1969, they capitulated to the loony Whitehouse brigade in the 70s, and went out of their way to sabotage the show and publicly attack it in the mid to late 80s, all while perpetually under-funding it and later under-promoting it.
That they were only willing to bring it back by slowly but surely destroying everything that made it special and unique to begin with makes perfect sense, really.