The Star Wars Thread

[Demdike@Cult Labs]

Originally Posted by keirarts

Well aside from the first film being rescued in editing (and ultimately cementing George Lucas decision to walk away from cinema) I was thinking more the weak narrative arcs, underwritten characters and plot contrivances that hold the films together like superglue. It's a shame when you think how a lot of 70s Hollywood cinema strove for the sort of intelligence and artistry found in European cinema and with a stroke Lucas and Spielberg went and pinched a lot of Roger Cormans showmanship and invented the summer blockbuster.

If only those editors that rescued Star Wars could have worked on some of todays blockbusters.

Corman's over rated anyway. Even his Gothic films aren't a patch on what Hammer were producing. Take Vincent Price out of them and there's a few lovely sets left and not a lot else. Just my opinion.

70's Hollywood was dead in the water until the likes of Lucas, Scorsese, Bogdanovich and Coppola came along with their films made outside of the Hollywood system.

[keirarts]

I think the rot set in in the 90s with Kevin Smith. I like smiths films but thinking back on it he put the films on something of a pedestal that they didn't deserve.
Back in the 2000's fans like myself spent an awful lot of time berating kids for liking the films and complaining Lucas had ruined our childhoods by making a series of shitty prequels. Non of us really took into account the kids that actually enjoyed the films for what they are.
Now we have another bunch of star wars flicks and it feels a little like history repeating. I think with age I've realised the films are simply popcorn flicks. Nothing more, nothing less. Not some great cinematic statement on the nature of man and his place in the universe. So when I spend my time arguing over glorified children's movies I've started to realise I come across as another 30 something man child. Certainly some of the vitriol directed at the latest movies is starting to sound a little like Jack D Ripper from Dr Strangelove.

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by Demdike@Cult Labs

70's Hollywood was dead in the water until the likes of Lucas, Scorsese, Bogdanovich and Coppola came along with their films made outside of the Hollywood system.

Precisely my point. A lot of these films strove for something more. Now Hollywood, certainly big budgeted Hollywood is churning out nothing but star wars. Most of Disney's marvel films are about as technically proficient as star wars. About as deep too.

As for Corman. Well His early gothic chillers aside, which are critically well regarded. He would admit himself a lot of his output was crap. But that's not really the point. He was set on delivering something mainstream Hollywood wasn't. That's what Spielberg and Lucas jumped on. So whatever weaknesses in Cormans films are still there in Star wars at al. Just papered over with better effects work.

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by trebor8273

Its mainly the dialogue but also the direction of the early films and the prequels I found badly paced something I can say about last jedi and after watching it again today I can say my score has dropped to 5/10. I think all the arguments about how bad etc it is made me rate it higher than in really should of, yep the whole casino plot is dreadful and I'm sticking to that now. It had some beautiful shots but was all pretty shallow and generic. I struggled too finish.

What's this trebor. Do I here the sounds of dissatisfaction with The Last Jedi.

If you think the early films were badly paced, just imagine how these Disney/Star Wars films will be viewed in 20yrs time.

[keirarts]

I envisage in 20 years time lots of 30 somethings complaining about the latest star wars and how the old 'classics' like last Jedi are better than the new ones

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

I think if anything I've come to the realisation in the last few years....

Star wars is actually pretty shit. The truth is it's impossible to ruin star wars. It always was.

Yeah, Disney/Star Wars is shit. You can thank Iger and Kennedy for that. And George Lucas for selling his film company off to his close friend Bob Iger.


Star Wars was once a very respected brand. Now under Disney, Star Wars has no respectability whatsoever. Star Wars has been ruined completely.

So really, you can ruin Star Wars, and make people believe that what went before Disney/Star Wars was inferior and not even worth even considering.

[nosferatu42]

Originally Posted by hivemind

What's this trebor. Do I here the sounds of dissatisfaction with The Last Jedi.

If you think the early films were badly paced, just imagine how these Disney/Star Wars films will be viewed in 20yrs time.

Well it's almost 20 years since 'The Phantom menace' and thats still shit (apart from the Darth Maul duel).

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by keirarts

I envisage in 20 years time lots of 30 somethings complaining about the latest star wars and how the old 'classics' like last Jedi are better than the new ones

I suspect keirarts that the vast majority of 30 somethings will be too busy with vertual reality to give a flying shit.

[keirarts]

Originally Posted by hivemind

So really, you can ruin Star Wars, and make people believe that what went before Disney/Star Wars was inferior and not even worth even considering.

Not really.

Star wars had a lot of fans. But it was never especially respected. A lot of people in the industry hated what it did to major Hollywood productions. It was largely responsible for most of the 80s stuff like transformers which was essentially designed to get kids buying the merchandise.
It's the point of my post. Take away the fog of nostalgia and the whole franchise is a fairly basic space opera. Even in the 70s it was stealing most of its ideas from flash Gordon, lensman, and kurosawa. All of which are better than star wars. Ultimately it's a bit of fun but nothing more. Not worth losing ones shit over and easy to ignore if your not a fan of creative decisions

[hivemind]

Originally Posted by nosferatu42

Well it's almost 20 years since 'The Phantom menace' and thats still shit (apart from the Darth Maul duel).

I have to hand it to Lucas nosferatu. At least The Phantom Menace actually had a story that made sense. Do you actually see that in The Last Jedi made by Disney?

I think the words are...

a coherent plot. 20 yrs on, and Lucas shows Johnson how to actually deliver a Star Wars film.

That's quite an achievement, wouldn't you say?